tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19092890.post1744885224309154393..comments2024-03-28T17:41:43.970+02:00Comments on Image Sensors World: Omnivision Announces 720p HDR SensorVladimir Koifmanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01800020176563544699noreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19092890.post-74600862657133023252013-04-14T16:48:30.712+03:002013-04-14T16:48:30.712+03:00Is image sensor with 830mV/lux-sec is good or with...Is image sensor with 830mV/lux-sec is good or with 1.2V/lux-sec is good?<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07719194116521911838noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19092890.post-77590513198084296272013-04-14T16:45:03.607+03:002013-04-14T16:45:03.607+03:00Which image sensor is good? 1.2 V/lux-sec or with ...Which image sensor is good? 1.2 V/lux-sec or with 830mV/lux-sec?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07719194116521911838noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19092890.post-90914617682453385832010-04-24T14:21:19.023+03:002010-04-24T14:21:19.023+03:00today's CMOS sensor datasheets are totally use...today's CMOS sensor datasheets are totally useless ! Too much marketing language inside and no enough technical precision. Some puts even misleading information, for example giving > 10V/lux*s but for 680nm wavelength ! A guy not expert with the difference between photometric and radiometric will be misled totally.<br /><br />I saw an OV presentation material where they show a comparison between their sensor and a CCD sensor, on this slide, their sensor gives great image but the CCD sensor gives a totally dark image ...<br /><br />All the camera comapnies know today that the only way to evaluate a CMOS image sensor is to do their own labo/field test ! No any confidence on the so-called datasheet. <br /><br />It's really a pitty !Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19092890.post-4017404814185110202010-04-24T01:36:03.029+03:002010-04-24T01:36:03.029+03:00Thanks again Image Sensor.
BTW omnivision is tar...Thanks again Image Sensor. <br /><br />BTW omnivision is targeting the security market<br /><br />http://www.ovt.com/download_document.php?type=sensor&sensorid=55<br /><br />This is a 1/4" sensor (NTSC) with 6um pixels so there is some overlap there...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19092890.post-57105284586833422892010-04-24T00:19:27.178+03:002010-04-24T00:19:27.178+03:00@ The surveillance is a huge market, I wonder why ...@ <i>The surveillance is a huge market, I wonder why the CMOS guys don't want to make such kind of pixel ?</i><br /><br />I believe both Omnivision and Aptina are overloaded by many projects and chose whatever brings them better profit for each spent R&D dollar. Perhaps they have better options than compete with Sony for this particular price/performance niche on the huge surveillance market.<br /><br />Nevertheless, if you represent a big company which needs such a sensor and is ready to pay for it, I'm sure Omnivision and Aptina marketing would be glad to talk about it.<br /><br />@ <i>If there is an easy way to determine this from the datasheets (no simulations, or actual tests), it would be much appreciated if you could post it.</i><br /><br />I think the best way is to ask for SNR10 figure. This is quite imperfect figure of merit, but it integrates many factors together, for color imaging, at least. So far I have not seen it appear in datasheets. One of the problems is that SNR10 procedure is not well documented, particularly in the color correction matrix part.Vladimir Koifmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01800020176563544699noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19092890.post-53567066426139428402010-04-23T23:57:30.796+03:002010-04-23T23:57:30.796+03:00"It's easy to conclude that SONY Ex-View ..."It's easy to conclude that SONY Ex-View CCD is far more sensitive than the best CMOS sensors made by Aptina or OV ..."<br /><br />My question is -- is it easy to conclude the magnitude of any difference in sensitivity by the variables given in the various datasheets? The best I can gather from Image Sensor's reply is the answer is no (thanks for the reply btw Image Sensor).<br /><br />If there is an easy way to determine this from the datasheets (no simulations, or actual tests), it would be much appreciated if you could post it. Thanks.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19092890.post-58706539115546566552010-04-23T23:37:49.927+03:002010-04-23T23:37:49.927+03:00you can make a similar pixel size as in a SONY Ex-...you can make a similar pixel size as in a SONY Ex-View. But can you have the same performance ? The surveillance is a huge market, I wonder why the CMOS guys don't want to make such kind of pixel ?<br /><br />It's easy to conclude that SONY Ex-View CCD is far more sensitive than the best CMOS sensors made by Aptina or OV ...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19092890.post-11191449404325576222010-04-23T23:14:40.332+03:002010-04-23T23:14:40.332+03:00@ 1) Is the V/Lux-Sec sensitivity stat used by apt...@ <i>1) Is the V/Lux-Sec sensitivity stat used by aptina and omni apples to apples against each other?</i><br /><br />Pretty much yes, it is.<br /><br />@ <i>2) If they are, is V/Lux-Sec a "complete" sensitivity stat -- or does it not take into account QE and Fill Factor?</i><br /><br />No, V/lux-s is quite incomplete even though QE and FF are included. In particular, it says nothing about color separation quality. Large color crosstalk can increase noise in the final image. In that sense color crosstalk is no less important than high QE. Sometimes QE is sacrificed in the design process to get better color crosstalk. Another thing is color shading, that is what happens in terms of sensitivity and crosstalk across the area. This depends not only on the sensor, but also on the lens used.<br /><br />@ <i>3) Is it possible to compare the "unparalleled sensitivity" of this sensor to a sony ccd (just as a baseline reference) by trying to convert the sensitivity stats in the sony data sheets and comparing it with the V/Lux-Sec stat for omni?</i><br /><br />It's possible albeit very time consuming. Basically, one needs to build a model for the whole camera including full image processing pipeline and optics. Even then one sensor might give better results in the center, while another one is better in the corners. Or one is better in fluorescent illumination, while other is better in incandescent light.<br /><br />Not going to spend much time on this analysis, my bet is on Sony, just because the particular CCD you mention has about 4x bigger pixel area, as compared with Omnivision's.Vladimir Koifmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01800020176563544699noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19092890.post-45043171356556600852010-04-23T19:17:14.834+03:002010-04-23T19:17:14.834+03:00most low light surveillance cameras are made with ...most low light surveillance cameras are made with CCD. CMOS is mainly used in IP camera where the exposure time can be long (limited by the net speed :) ).<br /><br />Sony EX-View HAD is unparallel in sensitivity !<br /><br />Any comments Eric or AT ??Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19092890.post-33991524927648061552010-04-23T18:06:18.389+03:002010-04-23T18:06:18.389+03:00by the way, the relevant stats for the sony sensor...by the way, the relevant stats for the sony sensor are on p11 and measurement methodology starts on p13 -- thanks.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19092890.post-53621386096854132092010-04-23T17:49:00.232+03:002010-04-23T17:49:00.232+03:00Not an image scientist so please take it easy on m...Not an image scientist so please take it easy on me :)<br /><br />I have a few questions for the gallery:<br /><br />1) Is the V/Lux-Sec sensitivity stat used by aptina and omni apples to apples against each other?<br /><br />2) If they are, is V/Lux-Sec a "complete" sensitivity stat -- or does it not take into account QE and Fill Factor?<br /><br /><br />3) Is it possible to compare the "unparalleled sensitivity" of this sensor to a sony ccd (just as a baseline reference) by trying to convert the sensitivity stats in the sony data sheets and comparing it with the V/Lux-Sec stat for omni?<br />Here is an example of a sony data sheet for reference where they explain their measurement metodology.<br />http://www.sony.net/Products/SC-HP/datasheet/90203/data/a6810506.pdfAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19092890.post-3282715249441130182010-04-22T20:53:28.554+03:002010-04-22T20:53:28.554+03:00Intrascene dynamic range of course. Interscene DR...Intrascene dynamic range of course. Interscene DR is not that interesting. Pls. look at Solhusvik's paper as a modern good example of INTRAscene DR > 110 dB.<br /><br />By the way, Scott Campbell,suggested a great way to easily verify INTRAscene DR by counting diffraction pattern rings. See:<br />"A high dynamic range CMOS APS image sensor"<br />http://www.imagesensors.org/Past%20Workshops/2001%20Workshop/2001%20Papers/pg%20137%20YWang.pdfEric R Fossumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09740612324630105312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19092890.post-86440747518323107882010-04-22T20:19:49.893+03:002010-04-22T20:19:49.893+03:00Every camera can operate with 120dB DR, but this D...Every camera can operate with 120dB DR, but this DR is not inside the same scene !!!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19092890.post-78998162988024898812010-04-22T20:17:23.559+03:002010-04-22T20:17:23.559+03:00Eric,
Do you talk about the intra-scene DR or int...Eric,<br /><br />Do you talk about the intra-scene DR or inter-scene DR ?<br /><br />Thanks !Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19092890.post-1853992952597388022010-04-22T18:52:40.496+03:002010-04-22T18:52:40.496+03:00Sure it is possible, but it does not mean it opera...Sure it is possible, but it does not mean it operates well at 0.2 lux. (Every sensor can operate at 0 lux!). But 110 db is a real capability.<br /><br />Anyway, as an example, see the "Lowlight to Sunlight" paper Photobit published in 1999:<br /> http://ericfossum.com/Publications/Papers/1999%20Program%20A%20Low%20Light%20to%20Sunlight%2060%20fps%2080kpixel%20CMOS%20APS%20camera%20on%20a%20chip.pdf<br /><br />Or the more recent Aptina paper presented in 2009 IISW and discussed several times in this blog:<br />http://www.imagesensors.org/Past%20Workshops/2009%20Workshop/2009%20Papers/081_Solhusvik_HDR_DCG_final.pdfEric R Fossumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09740612324630105312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19092890.post-75318741594081950942010-04-22T10:58:12.219+03:002010-04-22T10:58:12.219+03:00dB = 20log10(x)
f-stop = log2(x)
so 1024 => 60...dB = 20log10(x)<br />f-stop = log2(x)<br /><br />so 1024 => 60dB and 10 f-stop<br /><br />110dB => 1: 300000, that means this sensor can take image without accomodation from moonlight (0.2-0.3Lux) to direct Sunshine !!!!!<br /><br />Is this possible ?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19092890.post-48130865221346605622010-04-22T02:54:16.238+03:002010-04-22T02:54:16.238+03:00How does DR in Db relate to DR in f-stops ?How does DR in Db relate to DR in f-stops ?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19092890.post-47378916344507633492010-04-21T22:00:14.311+03:002010-04-21T22:00:14.311+03:00well turning a lens upside-down is not a problem, ...well turning a lens upside-down is not a problem, so a 800-old lens is still working !Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19092890.post-41468162105589965392010-04-21T21:58:05.923+03:002010-04-21T21:58:05.923+03:00No Invisage guy comes from OV ! Haha !No Invisage guy comes from OV ! Haha !Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19092890.post-12686234098980036352010-04-21T21:20:56.593+03:002010-04-21T21:20:56.593+03:00Omni is such a "hype" company. Sometimes...Omni is such a "hype" company. Sometimes i wonder if they sell hype or image sensors. do you recall how they said wavefront coding would turn 800 years of optics upside-down and we never heard anything about it again?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19092890.post-63728437514076103802010-04-21T19:59:00.394+03:002010-04-21T19:59:00.394+03:00"Unparalleled low-light sensitivity" ! I..."Unparalleled low-light sensitivity" ! Is Omni using the Invisage marketing guys ?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com